Kahn Quotes from Public Council Meetings

6/7/16:  Mr. Kahn: … in my opinion, the opinion letters are, what I would describe as wholly inadequate. Um, I don’t believe that they meet professional standards …[NRCDC lawyer] Mike Scott has a much stronger confidence in his own ability …  I don’t share that confidence.

9/20/16:  Dr. Brown-Kovacic:  But let me ask my question.  ***

Mr. Kahn:  And tonight is not the night we’re going to address the compliance options.    …   I think you’re misapprehending what’s going on here.  We have identified a problem for you.  I haven’t told you anything about what you have to do. That’s a compliance question.  Tomorrow, the very discussion that you want to have amongst elected officials, ***

Dr. Brown-Kovacic:  But you ..

Mr. Kahn:  But you will have the opportunity tomorrow to discuss with these folks and the NRCDC board anything you want about compliance.  And one of them may be, we’re going to ignore the city attorney’s advice, and we’re going to barrel forward.

9/20/16:  Ms. Rogers:  Do not accuse me of attempting to break the law. Because that is not my intent whatsoever. ***

Mr. Kahn:  You have a real problem in understanding the issue that we’re facing here, and what we have to do to overcome it.

11/14/16: Ms. Rogers: … These deadlines are placing the city in a precarious position and lighting the fuse for a quick and complete fire sale.  A huge fiduciary mistake is then plausible, and may create a nightmare of legal challenges by one or several of our citizens.  The possibility of a breach of fiduciary duty on the part of the city council is alarming and should warn us to act cautiously.  To ….

Mr. Kahn:  Ah. Let me …, Let me just

Ms. Rogers: Let me finish.

Mr. Kahn: Uh. I ..

Ms. Rogers: Let me finish.

Mr. Kahn: I have to advise you that, as the city’s council, that some of the things your saying are adverse to the city’s interest, and your own interests, and they’re incorrect, and they have the great potential to create confusion and …

Ms. Rogers: I would like to finish.

Mr. Kahn: You’re welcome to finish, but you should do so under advisement from the city attorney …

Ms. Rogers: Thank you.

Mr. Kahn: … that what you’re saying is increasing exposure and liability for the city and for you as an elected official.

11/14/16:  Mr. Granzella:  So if we don’t, uh, … Excuse me.  So if we leave the auction in there, would anyone feel more comfortable with a court ordered auction? ***

Mr. Kahn:  The court might order you to auction it tomorrow.  They might say ‘you want eleven months…’

Mr. Granzella:  Is that reasonable by a court?

Mr. Kahn:  I don’t think a court’s going to extend your timeline out.

11/14/16:  Mr. Granzella:  …, are we doing our fiduciary duty to our… to the people who elected us, and are we doing our due diligence to be sure …

Mr. Kahn:  I don’t believe you have a fiduciary duty to, to maximize the value of the, um, asset as you sell it.

11/14/16:  Ms. Rogers:  On the other hand, if we give it away, sometime in the future someone could come back on us and sue either us or you.

Mr. Kahn:  I disagree. And, uh, it’s frankly an outlandish idea, and, um, it’s sad that, as a representative of the city, you would continue to make public statements that expose the city and its representatives to the potential for a lawsuit.  You’re welcome to do that, but it’s not  wise, and I don’t you’re acting under the advisement of any counsel who’s advised you on breach of fiduciary duties or  what the scope could be, or who’s got standing to sue the city, or whether the city has immunity, or if you have standing to sue the city attorney if you’re not the client… All those kinds of things. So what’s hard to me is that you’re spreading misinformation and creating exposure for yourself.  And it’s to the detriment of the city that you love.  It’s confusing to watch this unfold in a public forum.

11/14/16:  Ms. Rogers:  My opinion is that I must consider all the considerations, all the options, and all the things that are going to be in the future, whether I’m alive or dead, and I need to know what’s right and wrong. And what I feel is right and wrong, I’m going to share.

Mr. Kahn:  And I don’t have a problem with you expressing what’s right and wrong. Um, I can’t address the afterlife.  I can only address the present tense here now. And your views are welcome.  But your conclusions about the law and the city’s liability that are unfounded, and aren’t based on any type of legal advisement are just off the charts.  They’re just… They’re not what you should be doing if you’re genuinely interested in the city’s interests.

8/14/17: Ms. Rogers:  I do have a question at that point. I recently .. I don’t remember if I read it or I heard it – that .. that privilege is determined by the council.

Mr. Kahn:  That’s not true.  You’re confusing that with waiver.

8/14/17:  Dr. Brown-Kovacic:  … I think it is a point of confusion for me because the council is the client.  The mayor is not the client.  And, uh, ..

Mr. Kahn:  You’re confused.  Okay?  The city of Salida is the client.  Okay.  The city of Salida acts through a governing body, which is the council and a mayor who’s an elected official.  They have independent sources of authority in the statutes and the Salida Municipal Code.  You understand?

8/14/17:  Mr. Granzella:  … you sent me an email today.  Just tell me how many pages was in that email you sent to the council.

Mr. Kahn:  [talking over Mr. Granzella throughout] There weren’t any pages attached to that email I sent you today.  Okay.  You have an opportunity to review the documents in advance of our executive session tomorrow at 10:00 am.  So in the past, we have made it available to you after the fact.  It wasn’t available before the meeting.

Mr. Granzella:  …. To the mayor’s office, read 17 pages …

Mr. Kahn:  If you choose to be informed of the issue,

Mr. Granzella:  Okay

Ms. Rogers:  That’s totally unfair.

Mr. Granzella:  Okay, let’s move on with it.

Ms. Rogers:  That’s totally unfair.

Mr. Kahn:  Why is it unfair?

Ms. Rogers:  Well, 17 pages, and there’s six of us who need to come into his office at his convenience ..

Mr. Kahn:  Um, hmm.

Ms. Rogers:  .. and read those before 4 o’clock tomorrow afternoon?

Mr. Kahn:  You have the opportunity as a group to address how you want to handle the fact that you can’t keep the documents in confidence. This is the solution I have come up with that will cure the   ***  you want me to do it because it comes from our accounting system.  You don’t want to .. you don’t want to be like Councilmember Rogers.  Are the candles staying up at night piecing this stuff together with a calculator.  I can press a button.

8/14/17:  Ms. Rogers:  On another matter, Ben.  I want to talk about what happened on July 11th when I was in Minnnesota and Wisconsin visiting my family.  Um, the uh .. I got .. came back to find five documents that you had sent to Jim, who sent them to the rest of us.  And you were to find six ..

Mr. Kahn:  Now, you want to be careful ..

Ms. Rogers:  .. six documents ..

Mr. Kahn:  I don’t know exactly what you’re going into.

Ms. Rogers:  I’m sorry?

Mr. Kahn:  I don’t know exactly what you are going into.  But if you’re ..

Ms Rogers:  .. the ..

Mr. Kahn:  Hold on.  But if you’re getting into ..

Ms. Rogers:  Let me finish please.

Mr. Kahn:  You’re getting into advisement issues.

Ms. Rogers:  Let me finish.

Mr. Kahn: I think you’re about to refer to confidential  ..

Ms. Rogers:  No, I’m not going to touch a confidential thing.  This is not a .. I will not touch a confidential thing.

Mr. Kahn:  Those are five ..

Ms. Rogers:  I gave this document to Jim on the 26th of May.  He and Christian found all except for six items that he could not find in his .. um .. email.  I encouraged him to find them later, and later, then on the 6th of July, the day before I left town, I asked him where they were, and he circled this document, and said, oh, these six I need to get from Ben.  Okay?  While I was gone, you sent five documents to Jim, and they were .. those six documents were supposed .. excuse me .. those six items that were missing his email were not all there.  Only four of them were there.  Two of them have not been received. Now I figured out why that happened.  When Jim sent you the numbers, he didn’t send you the months of those numbers.  Now on this document, it says 1/19/17, the .. the date that that bill came through and you have missed those.  Now instead, you sent nine documents from January on the last one of those five.  And I don’t understand why you sent those nine documents.


Mr. Kahn:  Honestly, I can’t  understand what you’re talking about.

Ms. Rogers:  .. the two …

Mr. Kahn:  [talking over Ms. Rogers] I can’t understand what you’re saying.  I understand there’s nine documents you got and you wanted a different five documents. I don’t know what you’re referring to.  And I think you’re probably confused about them.

Ms. Rogers:  I want to make certain .. you understand …

Mr. Kahn:  Just pick up the phone or stop by my office ..

Ms. Rogers:  No, I’m not allowed to do that.

Mr. Kahn:  Actually, you are. You just told that the mayor ..

Ms. Rogers:  The mayor has not allowed me to make direct contact with you since a year ago …

Mr. Kahn:  The council has a concern about the cost that you’re driving. But apart from that, you’re certainly welcome to have your questions answered.  This isn’t an efficient way to do it.  We can’t even understand what your …

Ms. Rogers:  … that I have tried since May and that has not worked.  So I did bring it up in public, because it is … There are two documents.  They are from the December, 2016 invoice that was …

8/14/17:  Dr. Brown-Kovacic:  I would like to ask in the future that we have more than one day to read these documents.  I am booked all day tomorrow.  I have some medical appointments, I have some other appointments.  It’s ..

Mr. Kahn:  The purpose of the executive session is not necessarily for you to read the documents.  It’s for me to give you advisement on the issues within that.

Dr. Brown-Kovacic:  I know.

Mr. Kahn:  You’re .. you’re going to have to read the document at some point.

Dr. Brown-Kovacic:  I do like to be prepared.

Mr. Kahn:  Yeah.  Um, the level of detail in this document, we just couldn’t get it done earlier.  And so, um, the issues are .. are very complex.  I don’t think, um, … you certainly want to read the document, but you’re gonna be much more informed just listening in the executive session, because you’re going to get lost in the weeds in the document. It’s .. uh .. pretty .. pretty complicated thing.  Unfortunately.  All right.  So, we’ll visit with Councilmember Rogers tomorrow at 8:30 am.  She’ll give us a list of whatever it is she is looking for with specificity.

Ms. Rogers:  I can give it to you right now.  I don’t have to .. I don’t need to …

Mr. Kahn:  I don’t know.  It .. it’s a little confusing the way you’re describing it and it’s not really efficient in this public session with the other elected officials here.

Ms. Rogers:  I can imagine ..

Mr. Kahn:  .. that

Ms. Rogers:  .. why I have to come to your office ..

Mr. Kahn:  There’s still confusion on your end, and documents that you feel are missing and documents that you want.  And the easiest way for you to get that, rather than sending emails around and complaining in public from May until now is to just come to my office, tell me what you want ..

Ms. Rogers:  I don’t really want to, Sir.

Mr. Kahn:  .. together and then you can choose not to, but then you can’t complain about not getting the information. I’m offering to meet with you at 8:30 tomorrow morning.…